Where do I start ?

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default Where do I start ?

Post by Garry on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 20:13

First topic message reminder :

Hi, we're just doing some updating on this thread fixing links etc. So some pics and vids may not display. We'll be done soon, thanks MSO

So you've just found out about the Melbourne Shuffle, and you want to know more. You've come to the right place Smile

The Melbourne Shuffle is an underground dance culture, which began in Melbourne (Australia) in the early 1990's and has now spread around the world.

It's a friendly inclusive culture. All nations, races, languages, abilities, old and young, male and female, are welcome.

There's a lot you can learn, in Shuffle moves, music, fashion, art works, video, meet-ups, crews, teams all associated with the Shuffle.

So please, don't be shy, we welcome people new to the Shuffle, and we're happy to help with whatever we can. So please ask...


Last edited by Garry on Tue 15 Feb 2011, 11:40; edited 9 times in total

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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by de locke on Thu 28 Aug 2008, 18:01

Soon it will be an olympic event!!! Very Happy

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Post by tristan mitch aka tiger on Thu 28 Aug 2008, 18:49

hahah, yeah alien

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Post by tristan mitch aka tiger on Sat 13 Sep 2008, 11:22

hay im back ^^ for a while at least been sick for almost 2 weeks now havent been able to shuffle much felt way better to day and felt like shuffling and wont you know it my running man was smoooth Very Happy it just happend dont even know what i did im gonna try and figure out what i did for those who are new to those to and want there shuffling to be smoother as well ^^ it still needs some work though but its smooth ;D and yea my bro wanted to learn this to so i have been teaching him the basics to and he is getting pretty good maby hell be like the moonboy of iceland or something but well see Very Happy
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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by Garry on Sat 13 Sep 2008, 19:40

hey how's it going tristan, I've been out of action myself, I've pulled a hamstring muscle in my leg and been on crutches, painful !! affraid

But at least it's given me a chance to catch up on some reading, got myself a copy of Boewulf, just getting into it.

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default Hey there.

Post by MattDotZeb on Thu 18 Sep 2008, 09:30

Hi, I'm a recently registered lurker.
I signed up because I finally recorded a video of mine and was hoping that you (Garry) could give me some tips.
It's basically just running man in various directions.. but yeah.

I practiced (very) off and on during the summer, and this past week I've been practicing 45+ minutes daily.


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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by Garry on Tue 23 Sep 2008, 13:48

hi guys, I posted a couple of long replies yesterday and they seemed to have disappeared, I'll try and find out whats going on ...

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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by yamas on Tue 23 Sep 2008, 13:51

Looks like our 4 posts got deleted, weird. Anyway, I started trying out the T step today, lot harder than it looks hahaha
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Post by de locke on Tue 23 Sep 2008, 15:54

Post up a vid when you have a chance Yamas!
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Post by Garry on Tue 23 Sep 2008, 16:03

yamas wrote:Looks like our 4 posts got deleted, weird. Anyway, I started trying out the T step today, lot harder than it looks hahaha

Yeh I noticed the board was down last night and couldn't log on, bummer, hate it when that happens grrrr

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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by de locke on Wed 24 Sep 2008, 07:12

Hey Matt how are you? I know you wanted a reply from Garry. But I thought I also might be able to offer you some advice.

I'll start off by saying that you seem to have the running man down Smile If you have been practicing 45 mins + everyday then it's probably second nature to you by now!

I'm not sure if you have seen the tutorials video's that explain the T - step? Well that's the next thing I would recommend you learn. Once you are able to use the basic t step shuffle and combine that with the running man then are able to work on developing your own style!

One thing I notice with a lot of new shufflers is that they tend to only focus on their leg movements. While this is fine, a shuffler who can use their arms and upper body as well as their legs IMO looks a lot better.

But the most important thing is to develop your own feel and style. To me, shuffling is about personal expression and individuality, creating something that enables you to have a connection with the music!

I hope that some of this can help point you in the right direction Smile

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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by Garry on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 07:42

Pontus_S wrote:If I do half beat, to me that is I touch the ground every second beat with my foot, so I move the other foot heel on one beat then toe on the next, just so we are talking about the same thing. I just got out of bed and I am abit slow and confused.

I don't fully understand how to use the moves you are telling about, so I gonna tell how I dance and maybe you can tell me how I should dance to do those moves.

When i Practice first I always move left or right, I am not to fast to change from left to right yet. So I move like bigmilan shows, lifting one foot and twist my other front foot in to the center of my body, then when I put the foot down I twist the other foots heel in to the center, and I repeat it. If I do this I usually go 1-2 meters in 1 direction then I swap and shuffle back in the other direction, I am better to change direction now and I can do it decently with half beat, if I got the half beat thing right, but I still usually go 1m or so before I swap direction.

Hi guys finally getting back into things and catching up - I've been in hospital with complications from the hamstring injury, still walking around on crutches at the moment, but on the mend. so I'll get to those posts we lost as well - the forum server crashed before it saved the posts. It does a big backup every 24 hours, so we (everyone using this free forum service) lost everything posted in that 24 hours. The server owner have had their heads bitten off by a lot of angry mods, so lets hope the service improves Wink

Pontus_S FINALLY Laughing got something to help explain the double time half beat thing. I've been trying to avoid giving a lecture in music notation to explain it, and found this brilliant 2 min vid from Riverdance which illustrates it with dance.

You'll see and hear the opening seconds the 4 beat tempo - about 120 bpm. It's a straight 1,2,3,4 as the dancers walk onto the stage. They do this twice so its 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

NOW START TAPPING YOUR FOOT IN TIME WITH THESE FOOTSTEPS AND DON'T STOP.

We call these groups of 4 main beats a 'bar' so that's where you'll hear the saying 4 to the bar, or 4 on the floor (after a 4 speed car gear box actually) So it's 4 main beats to the bar or 4/4 time.

So with 8 beats, they do a 2 bar intro. But for dancers they'd just count 8 steps.

After the first 8, they suddenly do 4 little beats inbetween every 1,2,3,4 beats. They do one loud tap or 'accent' on the main beats of 1,2,3,4, but have added quater beats (because there are 4 of them) to each one. So now there are 16 beats to the same bar, instead of 4. we call these 16ths because there are 16 beats in the bar. But I'll avoid all the music notation stuff, because that's 3 months of music theory study, and for dancers, just tapping your foot and counting the taps is quite enough to keep you busy Wink

There's a few ways you can put this, the simplest is, they have divided each main beat by 4.

The tempo, the main 1,2,3,4 stays the same, but now they have 1 234 2234 3234 4234 etc.

It's still the same tempo that your foot is tapping too, around 120 bpm, but sounds like it's going much faster, 4 times faster if you count every single beat as a bpm. But that would change the tempo to 480 bpm, when really technically it hasn't changed at all.

Then they throw in triplets, which are 3 little taps for every one beat, when they start kicking sideways.

It actually sounds like they've slowed down compared to the 1234, 2234 patterns, but it's really just the same 120 bpm tempo with less little beats inbetween. So to count every beat it'd be 360 bpm, but really it's still all 120 bpm.

So you get 123 223 323 423 and so on.

So it's like 12 beats to the bar, when there were 16 beats to the bar, but the overall 120 bpm tempo stays the same, while you tap your foot. It's the accent taps that have changed, not the basic time.

>>>You'll probably need to re read this a few times for it to sink in, but it's worth learning it actually makes it easier to dance when you understand it, it's something all dancers learn in formal dance lessons.

THEN IT GETS FASTER

Michael Flatley comes in and lifts the tempo to about 125 bpm, and adds a complex beat structure spread over 8 beats, alternating the accents and the speed picks up a bit more, but all in time and they stomp on 1,2,3,4 to keep everything in time, and make it easier for the audience to follow.

Where there were 16th beats, there suddenly 32 and 64 beats, all blindingliy fast and done in short bursts which gives them more impact because of the contrast.

It's freakin fantastic Laughing all in a 2 minute routine with stunning syncronised and very complex timing.

Give it a shot if you're game, but don't be dissapointed if your still struggling with the first few steps in 6 months. This is true virtuoso dancing, and all the music is just their feet tapping on a wooden floor.

The end bit where they leap and click their heals in mid air is just plain showing off in the best possible way, all done with absolutely perfect timing.

Try tapping your foot to the same beat as the opening 8 walking steps. Keep the same 8 beats all the way through picking up a bit of speed with Michaels hand claps and foot stomps, in the middle, but regardless of what ever the dancers do just keep tapping away and watch how accurate these guys are as they come down on the final beat, absolutely perfect timing, even though they sound like they've lost it a bit right at the end part, you realise they know exactly what they are doing. Simply brilliant. and the live audience knows it as you hear from their cheers.

What they do is weave the beat patterns like celtic art weaves lines. They are simple beats but when you start weaving them, they become incredibly complex works of art, under over, left right, forward reverse, reflected mirrored. all simple actions but combined beatifully. That's what Shuffling is.

If I were to try and draw the beat/rhythm patterns in the vid it would look like this classic Celtic knotwork.



These guys are some of the worlds very best Irish dancers, all dancing since they were old enough to walk, and they make it look so easy Rolling Eyes It makes your eyes water they're so good Laughing

So, probably a lot more compilcated than you realise, which is where you start understanding the skill involved, it's not just speed but the timing and accents. Think about this stuff when you shuffle, you'll hear these accents and groups of 4 quite easily once you start concentrating, and when you change your footwork in time with the music changes, you'll suddenly discover a whole new area of shuffling to explore, while still using the same basic steps.

Riverdance thunderstorm

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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by MattDotZeb on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 06:16

de locke wrote:Hey Matt how are you? I know you wanted a reply from Garry. But I thought I also might be able to offer you some advice.

I'll start off by saying that you seem to have the running man down Smile If you have been practicing 45 mins + everyday then it's probably second nature to you by now!

I'm not sure if you have seen the tutorials video's that explain the T - step? Well that's the next thing I would recommend you learn. Once you are able to use the basic t step shuffle and combine that with the running man then are able to work on developing your own style!

One thing I notice with a lot of new shufflers is that they tend to only focus on their leg movements. While this is fine, a shuffler who can use their arms and upper body as well as their legs IMO looks a lot better.

But the most important thing is to develop your own feel and style. To me, shuffling is about personal expression and individuality, creating something that enables you to have a connection with the music!

I hope that some of this can help point you in the right direction Smile

De Locke

Yeah, I've been practicing. Very Happy
I'm doing more on the t-step now than I had before.
Also currently working on the reverse running man (Saw it in a Brazilian video and copied it, then found out what it was called tongue ), as well as the forward step (if that is what it is really called)
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Post by de locke on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 08:26

Awesome. Post up another vid when you get a chance!
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Post by MattDotZeb on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 13:37

I'll try to aim for next weekend after I become better at the reverse running man/t-step.
I pretty much have the forward step down.

Also working on going from running man to t-step and vice versa.
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Post by de locke on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:09

Cool, I look forward to seeing your vid Smile
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Post by tristan mitch aka tiger on Sat 04 Oct 2008, 00:35

hey how's it going tristan, I've been out of
action myself, I've pulled a hamstring muscle in my leg and been on
crutches, painful !! affraid

But at least it's given me a chance to catch up on some reading, got myself a copy of Boewulf, just getting into it.


hehe long time again ^^ im fine thx have not yet figured out what i did, think it may have been that i just was to tired to go full full out hardstyle so i just did it slowly and maybe it that i, keeping my heel down but other than that i have no idea :'D and ill have to wait a bit longer till i get my phats they say that Iceland is going broke or something and i just loned my big bro some money so he could move to sweeden.
hope your leg gets any better soon pulling the hamstring can be a pain affraid

p.s. hows the book ? never read it my self only seen the movie, hope it dosent suck Embarassed
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Post by Garry on Sat 04 Oct 2008, 13:49

Haven't read the book !!!! shame Wink I'm slowly getting through all the academic introduction, which has all the background, translation notes and historic references, I didn't realise it was so old like 6th century or something. But it looks pretty good.

I've got a contemporary prose translation, so it's an easier read first up, to just get into the story line. I'll get around to the poetic translation after that, they're usually hard, especially in old english, have to scratch my head every second word to figure out what it is.

Yeh tough times at the moment all over the place with the Wall st crash. This is actually what it felt like in 1991/92, really unsettling times, money very tight and you don't know how much badder it'll get.

But on the bright side, this is exactly the environment that the shuffle was created in, weird eh? We ended up thinking, well it's all out of our control, so we'll just enjoy each day as it comes and make the most of it.

Most of us were out of work, had no money, so we just started doing stuff with whatever we had on hand, everybody pitching in with things, all for free, real grass roots sort of thing.

Which is where we took over shut down factories for a weekend to do a party, or meet up in the street or park, everybody just getting together all BYO (bring your own) share when you can, and make the most of things,

Like the frankenstein type monster we made out of rubbish in waste skips. About 30 of us had no money, were bored senseless so we said lets meet at this vacant block of land and build something, until someone tells us to stop.



I filmed a time lapse of the first sunset on super8 film


more of this in the oldskool thread.

http://mso1.cultureforum.net/oldskool-f5/so-what-is-oldskool-t2.htm

This was the flyer, we just photocopied a dozen or so to pass around.




You'll see we even say BYO JUNK !!!

We had no grand plan, it was just an excuse for anyone at a loose end to turn up, most of us didn't know each other, only some of us had meet, but we all got on well and became great friends for years afterwards.

We really surprised ourselves with what we could do in a couple of days with no money. Someone had a welder, someone had a van, someone had a ladder etc, all word of mouth, and we just had mix tapes on a small boom box, that was the sound system.


Some More Good Stuff Garry Shepherd (1992)


So we thought, this is fun, lets do something else, and it started the whole underground shuffle scene in Melbourne. That's where we got the everyone can contribute and every contribution no matter how big or small was appreciated and valued by everyone.

We were all having a tough time, so no one was excluded, and we just wanted to get together and have some fun and forget about the real world for a few hours. Our problems would still be there waiting for us when we got home, so we just shut them out for a while and had fun.

A few years later all the money started rolling again and the commercial parties and clubs took it over and ruined the whole feel, which is why we generally say the oldskool era was over by 1996. The do it yourself for free, freedom thing was gone, and the scene became about rich people getting richer.

Our general feeling at the start was, well we've got nothing to loose, we'll just recycle whatever is laying around, and create something new out of it. Not so much as an environmental thing, but out of shear necessity, because we were all broke. That's when we'd get 10-20 friends together and move into a warehouse to share the rent, and do parties every month or so to try and survive, sitting around old 20 ltr cans burning old pallet wood to stay warm and cook over.

A lot of old office buildings had closed down and thats when we moved into the Melbourne CBD (Central Business District), you could get an old office with 6 months rent free when you moved in, the owners were so desperate, just to make it look like there was activity going on.

We made our own showers with camp shower arrangements, they were an underground show piece on how you got water in and out of the office, because none had running water, you carried it in buckets from the shared toilet sinks. everyone had different styles from very basic to full on glam jobs with doors and things.

You made furniture out of old office things, built lofts out of old office wall material, old doors whatever you could find. We couldn't even afford nails, so we'd pull apart old frames, hammer the nails straight and reuse them. Nothing was wasted, we'd go through industrial waste skips every night to find stuff. Old computers filing cabinets, office desks - I've still got 3 filing cabinets, 2 desks and a couple of chairs from 1991 !!! I've got my computer on one right now as I type this Smile))

This art work below was made out of all recycled stuff found in waste skips, just the paint was new. The Australian rock band Boom Crash Opera commissioned me to do it for their 'Fabulous Beast' tour in 1993. They lived around the corner from the beast sculpture we'd made, and wanted the same 'reclaimed waste' ethic involved for the work, even paid me extra to search waste skips at night to get the stuff. They named their album after the beast and filmed a video clip in front of it. The beast stood there for 9 months !!! We thought it's be pulled down within days by the local council. But it became a tourist attraction, people would ad their own bits to it, nobody stole anything from it or trashed it in anyway, it was like a sacred site.

This pic is from Boom Crash Opera's Coke 'Take 40 Australia' national top 40 TV show special they were doing. I was just finishing off bits in the set dept. That's the TV Soap 'Neighbours' erinsborough high school lockers and sets behind the art works. Neighbours is produced in Melbourne.



So who know's what's gonna happen next eh? Could be good Wink


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Post by Garry on Mon 06 Oct 2008, 23:09

geez guys this crash is really hitting Iceland hard, just seen it on the news. Hang in there tristan. These are scary times. But we'll get through it Wink

MSO has regulars from all the countries affected by the Wall St crash, our thoughts and concerns go out to all of you.

You'll find a good stomp every now and then to some oldskool gabba or hardcore will help relieve a bit of the stress, frustration and fear. That is truely what the Shuffle is about, it was our escape from reality during the 1989/90 crash and the years of recession afterwards. It's free, you can do it anywhere, it releases all the crap, you feel great afterwards, and all you need is feet.

But do it in bursts, usually the head would go, like headbanger style to the beat, then suddenly you'd explode for 20 seconds, wait a bit then do it again.

There's more music and free legal downloads at this MSO link

http://mso1.cultureforum.net/music-f13/free-to-download-album-links-t121.htm

Ceasefire - Speakerblow


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default Re: Where do I start ?

Post by eb45978 on Wed 08 Oct 2008, 10:47

What are some stretches you would suggest on doing to warm up and down?
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Post by Garry on Wed 08 Oct 2008, 15:57

Hi eb45978, welcome to the forum. good question.

First I need to say I'm not a trained health professional, so take all my advice as that. It's hard to judge what is good for each shuffler, because it depends on your age, gender, body type, general health etc.

So best is to chat with a school gym teacher, sports coach or a nurse/doctor etc about what is best suited to you personally.

THAT SAID

here's some stuff from online which will give you a good start.http://www.mydr.com.au/

http://www.mydr.com.au/default_new.asp?Article=2326


Link to larger pic> http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/cybafaeries/mso/Stretches.jpg




So put simply, you need to warm up, by low intensity exercise for 2-3 minutes, jogging a bit, like a bit of running man taking it real easy. And generally loosening up your arms, waist and legs for instance by doing the above stretching exercises, slowly and gently. Then you can step up the pace a bit.

SHufflers take special note of the BALLISTIC STRETCHING detailed below. As the title suggests it's what hardstyle shuffling is, it's an intense burst of energy which really punishes your muscles and heart rate etc. You use your energy and muscles like a tennis player or pro swimming, where you go from standing still to suddenly full throttle.

When to stretch.
Important: stretch only when your muscles are warm, as cold muscles are more likely to tear.

Stretching before and after exercise. A light static stretching routine (stretching a muscle and holding it in this position without discomfort for 10-30 seconds) can be performed at the end of a warm-up, before undertaking more vigorous activity. Be sure to stretch each of the muscle groups you will be using in your chosen activity 2 to 3 times.

An ideal time to do most of your static stretching is after exercise, that is, immediately after your post-exercise cool-down. Allow around 5 to 10 minutes to stretch after exercise, and concentrate on the muscles that you have just exercised. Use the static stretches illustrated below as a guide. Stretching at this time helps restore your muscles to their resting length and prepare them for your next exercise session.


Dedicated stretching. Including a dedicated stretching routine (for 15 to 20 minutes and unrelated to an exercise session) in your exercise programme 2 or 3 times a week will be an additional help to maintaining your flexibility. For example, attending a yoga class weekly is an enjoyable way to contribute to the flexibility part of your fitness programme.

Warming up for a dedicated stretching session might involve 2 to 3 minutes of jogging or doing your favourite exercise at low intensity for 5 minutes. Raising a light sweat will indicate warming of your muscle tissue.

How to stretch
Static stretching. Static stretching is considered the safest method of stretching. (See the sample static stretching routine illustrated below.) A static stretch should be held for 10 to 30 seconds at a point where you can feel the stretch but do not experience any discomfort. If you feel discomfort, ease back on the stretch. Remember not to bounce when holding the stretch.

Dynamic or ballistic stretching. These types of stretching require instruction from a qualified fitness instructor or sports coach, and may sometimes replace static stretches as part of a warm-up for strong activity.

For example, if your chosen activity requires sudden bursts of power, such as jumping or sudden acceleration, then specific ballistic stretches under the guidance of a qualified sports coach may be needed following your warm-up and before the activity.

Dynamic stretches involve muscle movements that move a joint through the full range of movement that will be required in your chosen sport or activity. Dynamic stretches may be used in preparation for high-level exercise, such as competitive tennis or swimming.

Proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) stretching. PNF stretching involves a stretch—contract—relax—stretch cycle whereby the passive stretching of a muscle is enhanced by an intervening isometric contraction of that muscle followed by brief relaxation and a further passive stretch. First the muscle group is passively stretched — this is stretching where you hold your body in the stretch position with the help of a partner or another part of your body or some equipment, e.g. a towel. The muscle is then contracted isometrically — that is, against resistance for about 10 to 15 seconds — then relaxed for 2 to 3 seconds and then passively stretched a bit further than the original passive stretch. This process is usually repeated several times.

The technique of PNF stretching was first developed as a muscle therapy but is now used by athletes as a means of enhancing flexibility. PNF stretching is often used by osteopaths and physiotherapists.

Stretching as therapy. Various stretches may be prescribed or performed by a physiotherapist or other qualified health professional as part of treatment for muscle or joint injuries. The exercises illustrated here are not designed for therapeutic purposes and should not be used in place of prescribed therapeutic stretches.

More of this is found at >>
http://www.mydr.com.au/default_new.asp?Article=2326

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Post by tristan mitch aka tiger on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 02:44

Garry wrote:geez guys this crash is really hitting Iceland hard, just seen it on the news. Hang in there tristan. These are scary times. But we'll get through it Wink

MSO has regulars from all the countries affected by the Wall St crash, our thoughts and concerns go out to all of you.

You'll find a good stomp every now and then to some oldskool gabba or hardcore will help relieve a bit of the stress, frustration and fear. That is truely what the Shuffle is about, it was our escape from reality during the 1989/90 crash and the years of recession afterwards. It's free, you can do it anywhere, it releases all the crap, you feel great afterwards, and all you need is feet.

But do it in bursts, usually the head would go, like headbanger style to the beat, then suddenly you'd explode for 20 seconds, wait a bit then do it again.


ill be alright i think, hope you guys survive. Thx for the link ill be checking it out been needing some new beats the stuff i got is getting boring and yeah ive been having those burst of energy hehe my fists are all swollen after yesterday i finally got my brothers old room and put up my boxing bag Twisted Evil there si also much more room to shuffle
but got some stuff to take care of ill comment more later
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Post by PhiLL on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 10:11

Nice tutorial =]

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Post by PhiLL on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 11:05

I just have one question:
What are phats made of?

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Post by de locke on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 17:16

The best phats are made out of denim imo but other materials are also used.
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Post by Garry on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 18:37

Yep, denim's good, also any cotton based material, a light cotton if you're in a hot climate. 100%Synthetics tend to cling too much, but cotton/synthetic blends can work.

Mainly something that breathes to keep the sweating down, and something with a bit of weight to it to hold it's shape.

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Post by Garry on Wed 15 Oct 2008, 18:39

tristan mitch aka tiger wrote:
Garry wrote:geez guys this crash is really hitting Iceland hard, just seen it on the news. Hang in there tristan. These are scary times. But we'll get through it Wink

MSO has regulars from all the countries affected by the Wall St crash, our thoughts and concerns go out to all of you.

You'll find a good stomp every now and then to some oldskool gabba or hardcore will help relieve a bit of the stress, frustration and fear. That is truely what the Shuffle is about, it was our escape from reality during the 1989/90 crash and the years of recession afterwards. It's free, you can do it anywhere, it releases all the crap, you feel great afterwards, and all you need is feet.

But do it in bursts, usually the head would go, like headbanger style to the beat, then suddenly you'd explode for 20 seconds, wait a bit then do it again.


ill be alright i think, hope you guys survive. Thx for the link ill be checking it out been needing some new beats the stuff i got is getting boring and yeah ive been having those burst of energy hehe my fists are all swollen after yesterday i finally got my brothers old room and put up my boxing bag Twisted Evil there si also much more room to shuffle
but got some stuff to take care of ill comment more later

good to hear tristan, keep in touch.

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Post by PhiLL on Thu 16 Oct 2008, 10:12

Thx men

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